January 23, 2024
In this episode, I discuss my multicultural upbringing across Poland, South Korea, and Canada, and how my early experiences shaped my approach to mental health.
I share openly about experiencing my first panic attack in university, the challenges of finding proper support, and how I transformed my handwritten coping techniques into what would become the Rootd app.
I also provide insights into my evolution as a solo founder, from the initial desperate drive to help others avoid the years of struggle I went through, to finding a place of contentment while continuing to grow the business.
What You’ll Learn
- Explore the deeper meaning of healing – from reversing cycles of fear to finding contentment and learning to trust your own path despite external pressures
- Learn about the “Rooter” feature and how it helps users ground themselves during panic attacks using proven techniques and prompts
- Discover how the intersection of trauma, cultural pressures, and constant busyness led to Ania’s first panic attack in university, and how this experience eventually inspired Rootd
- Learn about the unique challenges of growing up across multiple cultures (Poland, South Korea, Canada) and how different educational systems and work ethics shaped her approach to life
Video
Watch my interview on The First Session
Or watch here:
Transcript
Rob Pintwala: Welcome to Actualize, a podcast focused on the intersection of performance, ambition and mental health. I’m your host, Rob Pintwala. My goal for the show is to not only celebrate success, but but also shed light on the challenges and sacrifices that come with ambition. Actualize is brought to you by first session, launched in 2019, I started first session to help you find the right therapist. First Session is purposely designed more like a dating website than a clinical website as we’re completely focused on helping you find the right fit the first time. My team and I interview and vet our partner therapists so you can simply browse videos, see who you vibe with, and instantly book a session. Check us [email protected] and see why more than 7,000 Canadians have chosen First Session to find a therapist. Ania is the founder of Rootd, an anxiety and panic attack app that has been downloaded more than 3 million times. Ania started Rootd after she experienced her first panic attack while in university and not finding sufficient support. Everything Ania has learned about how to overcome anxiety and panic attacks has been packaged up into this award winning app. You can find Rootd spelled R O O T D in all app stores. During our conversation we talk about Ania’s upbringing in Canada, Poland and South Korea. We chat about her work ethic and how that contributed to her experience with anxiety and panic. We also discuss the concept of growth and transformation, being multidimensional. We touch on being a solo founder and what it’s like running a business from scratch. I hope you enjoy this episode with Ania Wysocka. Ania, thank you so much for joining me today.
Ania Wysocka: Thanks for inviting me.
Rob Pintwala: I came across yourself and your app probably in the last year as we’re kind of crossing paths here on the west coast of Canada. And before I learned about it I had some friends particularly share their experiences with with panic attacks with me. As they know I’m the therapy guy in the friend group. And yeah, I can’t say I don’t think I’ve ever had an acute attack. I’ve definitely had some panic, but I just found it so fascinating to hear like the first time it happened for them and when it came up, I think one of them was driving on the highway, another one was actually meditating and was like already kind of on this kind of journey of mindfulness and like it happened later, which I found kind of very surprising. And another one I think was definitely around just a work stress and like literally just burnout and distaste for work. So I that’s just three examples but you must know like dozens and Dozens of examples of when it might come up. Right. I mean, when was your first experience with a panic attack?
Ania Wysocka: Yeah, so mine was in my last year of university. And all throughout university I had had a job, I had been studying, taking multiple courses and this was actually the first time that I had a break. And so rather than go into it and be able to relax, I actually had a panic attack like near day one. And it just messed with the rest of my not only year but like following years after that. So the theory there is that I had been so busy and constantly just distracted because I was working hard, trying to get good grades and you know, afford living in Canada. And I, yeah, I guess I had pushed back and not dealt with stuff that I could have earlier. Uh, but mind you, I was also a teenager. So it’s like, that’s, you know, I didn’t grow up learning about emotions and how to deal with them. So it was all new to me. And yeah, so the theory is that as soon as I had that moment of silence, then it all came up. I’m so maybe kind of similar to your friend with the meditation. Although sounds like they were much more self aware than I was. I was definitely not meditating at that age. I was, yeah, just trying to like keep going. So that’s how it popped up for me. And yes, I’ve now working on Rootd, heard like thousands of different of stories of how it’s popped up for others.
Rob Pintwala: Yeah, that’s. That must be incredible. And that was so. That was so in your final year in university. Yeah, I can resonate with the busyness part in particular, I think, you know, in particular like in my high school years actually because I was just like constantly doing something, work or sports or like whatever, socializing and like never had a break. And then actually I think I had the sort of fortunate and privilege to be receiving some help to go to university. So I like wasn’t working in the summer and then I got to school and I wasn’t working and then all of a sudden 15 hours of class per week at a 40 hour week. And I didn’t make the sports team that I tried out for. But then I think my sort of, my reaction to it was more depression rather than anxiety and panic. Like I, I kind of shut down which was my most pronounced, you know, mental health kind of period of my life for two years. And I was stuck there for a while. But I know that like everyone’s different and I think that it could have easily just been a little bit more of Anxiety driven for me. What was like, did you have a busy sort of, you know, pre university years? What did that you know, period of time look like for you? And you know, even all three universities are. You’re working, so you’re just kind of nonstop on the go.
SPEAKER B
Yeah. I had a event that caused like post traumatic stress disorder happened in high school and that’s what I didn’t really deal with or address in university. And so I think that this was like a delayed reaction to that.
Rob Pintwala: Wow .It. And you didn’t necessarily realize that’s it was traumatic and sort of manifested in PTSD until later.
Ania Wysocka: I knew it was traumatic and I saw a few counselor just like whatever the university provides, but you see them for a few sessions and then you’re on your own kind of thing. And that’s just as, you know, like with the structure of bringing support to students or low income, it’s like very. Unfortunately, you don’t get to create a connection with that therapist for a long time. Right. You only get so many sessions. And so I personally don’t think that was very effective now looking back as an adult. Right. And at the time I was like a teenager dealing with this stuff. So yeah, not only did I not have that prolonged support, I also just like didn’t even know how to talk about it. And yeah, yeah, it was all new.
Rob Pintwala: Wow. And it’s. I. The language that you’re using before is like sort of the theory is, you know, maybe like kind of the explanation for sort of why that might have come up for you, like the panic attack. It’s so interesting that it sounds like the busyness almost could have been sort of like the coping mechanism. Right. And. Or it could have been in the place like that. That’s kind of what you’re saying. Just a quick interruption to chat about my company first session. Have you had a less than ideal experience looking for a therapist? There are lots of options out there, but it’s hard to know where to get started and who to trust. My company first session focuses entirely on creating the best experience finding a therapist. We vet and verify each therapist we work with, interview them on camera, and allow you to browse on your own time to see who you vibe with. You can see updated availability and book directly with them. No phone calls, no email back and forth, run through videos and find the right therapist for you. The first [email protected] definitely.
Ania Wysocka: Yeah. I mean it gave me a sense of control in a time where I didn’t feel a ton of control and the things I could control were like school and work and. Yeah, that’s quite consistent for me. And the reason why I say theory is because this is like after talking to counselors now, after being able to look back, you know, hindsight is 20 20. You get to analyze things that happen to you and make theories as to why they happen. And that’s just something multiple counselors have supported that theory of. You know, there was finally some quiet after all these years of busy. And so all of that stuff came up that I was.
Rob Pintwala: Yeah, I don’t need to dive too much into your past, but I’d love to just give listeners a little bit more context of. Yeah. Where you came from and like kind of maybe where rooteANthis kind of like, you know, neat, like work ethic kind of came from. Like, were you, were. Did you go to high school in Canada? Did you just come for university or.
Ania Wysocka: I just came for university, but I was born here, but then I moved to Poland when I was little and that’s where my grandparents were. So I was sent to go live with them for a little bit. Not sent like in a bad way. It’s just like for practical reasons at the time. And then I did middle school there in Poland and I did high school in South Korea and then I came to B.C. from South Korea and I’d never been here before, so I just showed up with two suitcases.
Rob Pintwala: Wow.
Ania Wysocka: At 17, that in itself was probably, you know, quite traumatic. And that’s definitely not something I had acknowledged at the time. I just had to get busy with school.
Rob Pintwala: Yeah.
Ania Wysocka: And adapt culture.
Rob Pintwala: And by. So by yourself you showed up. Yeah. And what. Just for a little bit more context, like, how would you describe the sort of culture in Poland, in South Korea and in Canada? Like, I mean, I’m, I’m. This could be a huge bias, but I have, you know, some awareness that South Korea is like a hard working culture, like very hardworking. And Poland definitely as well. Like, would you say any differently or how would like, do you think that kind of shaped your upbringing?
Ania Wysocka: Yeah, definitely. So I’d say in Poland the education system is quite a few years, I think ahead. So when I first got there, I was like in shock. In sixth grade, just like, wow, these guys are doing like algebra and geometry stuff that I wasn’t going to do until like 8th grade in my, or 9th grade in my American school that I went to in Korea, but I went to like a Polish, Polish school. And yeah, that was incredibly challenging at first. It was like a shock to the system and I had to, like, catch up. And so I would, like, stay up late as a kid, like, steady. And I remember my grandpa used to say, like, if you don’t turn off the lights and go to bed, I won’t wake you up for school. Like, that was the one threat that worked for me because I was like, I can’t get more behind. So I think that was distilled into me. I think my mom just observing her from an early age, she’s always had multiple jobs as well. She, you know, graduated from one of the top schools in Poland, but then went to Canada where it wasn’t recognized her degree. And so she had to have a lot of, like, kind of odd jobs and from coffee shops to retail, and she, like, stacked them on. And so as a kid, I thought maybe she didn’t want to spend time with me or whatever. But then as I grew up, I was like, oh, now she was like, working the whole time. And so that I think probably contributed to work ethic, just seeing her do that. Living with my grandparents, they had really high standards for. I mean, I was in middle school, so it’s not like they were like, pushing me like, wild, but they definitely had high standards for just me in general and how I was to behave and kind of learn and go to school and everything. And then in Korea, you’re right as well. Like, I went to an American school, so I wasn’t in that Korean system, maybe, thankfully, in a way, because I didn’t have all of that extra pressure on top of like, what I obviously already put on myself. But I did. I was surrounded by that culture. And it’s very common to see kids leave school very late because after school they go to another school. Yeah. I even taught English at schools where, you know, kids that were teaching were like 9 to 11, and they were there at like 7 to 9pm at night. So, yeah, a lot of, like, a lot of hard work, I’d say a lot of, like, the idea that you can get so much done in a day. So, like, why not do it?
Rob Pintwala: Wow.
Ania Wysocka: I think that type of mentality, yeah.
Rob Pintwala: I grew up with, wow, that’s impressive. And. And so I, you know, I’ve heard a little bit about your story of, like, how you started, rootd. And it sounds like, you know, sort of just out of filling your own. Filling your own need. Right. And I’d love to just hear your perspective on that around. Yeah. How you just, like, started. I mean, it sounds like, so resourceful in terms of getting, you know, the right kind of Structure in place to, like, support yourself and maybe as part of that story, like, how long? Because I’ve also heard you. You say on. On another podcast actually, that sort of things have changed or anything that, like, sort of your anxiety is in sort of a better place now. Right. So I was just curious, like, how long, uh, you were kind of battling those types of panic attacks and that heightened anxiety. And, like, was that, like, were you kind of, like, building at the same time or how did that look?
Ania Wysocka: Yeah. So I’ll just say on the. On the other thing, though, like, as great as it was, having that modeled, that work ethic modeled, I do. I don’t know, like, what the answer is for that, because it obviously led to burnout. And I wish, like, there was an external event that I mentioned as well that contributed to it, but, like, I think that there’s so much good and also just letting kids have fun and. And not stress. Right. So I don’t actually know what was it? This is just my story. This is what I experienced. But who knows, like, what the answer is and, like, how to find that balance out there? So I’ll just put that out there. Yeah. In terms of Rootd, though. Yeah. So I. When I first had that panic attack, I just had no idea what was going on. I had heard of panic attacks, thought it was just people too stressed out, didn’t realize, like, how debilitating they could be. And so I took to my phone to see if there was something there that could help, and there wasn’t. There was just, like, a medical app and a hypnosis app, and neither of those really vibed with me. And after talking to my doctor, I was super disappointed because he gave, like, no information. And it was a struggle. I was really feeling like nobody was giving me answers. And I guess going back to that sense of control that I love to have, like, I just felt like I didn’t have it. And so I found a lot of comfort in reading books on anxiety and panic attacks. And the one that really resonated the most was, like, a cognitive behavioral point of view. So that’s largely by, like, Dr. Claire weeks back in the day. She’s one of the first doctors to be like, hey, this is treatable, and it’s not something that’s permanent. It’s like a behavioral condition. And that gave me so much hope at the time, like, day and night. When I read his words, I was, like, probably crying or something. I don’t know. I don’t remember. But I remember that it was, like, a transformation for my life, because I went from, like, just feeling desperate, like, things will never be okay again, to then having hope. And unfortunately, it took me many years, though. So I was not, you know, an example of someone who, like, got over it. Cause I, by the time I even found that stuff that was starting to help, it had already been a couple years. So, yeah, it took a really long time. And it wasn’t until I was finally integrating some of those practices. And then some didn’t work for me, some did. So Rootd as a culmination of, like, what worked for me personally. It is, like, quite a personal app in that sense. It’s definitely expanded over the years, but when it first started, it was, like, extremely personal. It was written exactly how it made sense to me. And I’m not a psychologist or a therapist, so I had it all reviewed by clinicians before I published it. But it’s still very. Yeah, just a very personal app in that way.
Rob Pintwala: It’s incredible. When you launched the app, was it like, is it something that you’d actually, like, be able to test? Cause I know it has, like, a feature that actually you call it the. Is it still called the SOS feature?
Ania Wysocka: It’s called, like, the rooter. Because the idea is, like, Rootd is about getting grounded in the ground, like a tree. Right. So then when there’s a storm, you’ll topple over. And the rooter. Yeah, just like every tool is a play on words, and so the router is just like what roots you in.
Rob Pintwala: That moment that is intended on the user engaging with during a panic attack.
Ania Wysocka: Yeah.
Rob Pintwala: And were you able to build that feature, like, and test it with your own panic attacks?
Ania Wysocka: It was more so like having a notebook where I had all those prompts written down. So for listeners, the rooter, it shows you different prompts to sort of guide you through a panic attack and activate the parasympathetic nervous system, get you out of that heightened state again. And it shows a number of different prompts that you can forget when you’re in that heightened state. Right. Like, really, you know, rational thoughts that, you know, you’ve survived every panic attack to date, and these do when this isn’t going to last forever. Things like that are extremely comforting to hear when you’re in those moments. So I would have them written down in my notebook and physically carry around my notebook, challenge myself. I mean, my panic attacks were so bad that I struggled to leave the house. And so I, upon leaving the house, would need to, like, read these things. I’m trying to get on a bus. I would need to read them. Like, I couldn’t travel. I couldn’t public speak. I didn’t do anything that I used to love to do during this period of my life. So I. Yeah, I did it in notebook form.
Rob Pintwala: That’s so cool.
Ania Wysocka: And then also all the wireframes for Rootd were also drawn in those notebooks. I still have them somewhere. I should pull them out so that people were asking for, like, photos of that. I should probably find it and do that.
Rob Pintwala: That is so cool. Yeah. I mean, I’ve interviewed a lot of therapists now, and I was thinking about when you were speaking there, one therapist just, like, was speaking about anxiety in general and how it sort of just like builds upon itself and like, kind of, you know, I guess, like cumulates and compounds. And it sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like if you’re in this kind of trap of like, panic, you know, panic and anxiety, that it can easily just turn into this, like, wheel that just. Probably just feels like it just keeps on spinning. Right? And like, you just. You’re just. It’s like you’re stuck in it, which must be so difficult. Um, so that’s something that you. That you created that. I’m also curious to kind of like, step out of this a little bit or come to another perspective. Know there’s kind of like that kind of cbt, like tools. Sounds like a lot of like the thought that you put into Rootd. And I understand there’s like a lot of like, education in there too, to like an awareness for folks. So you kind of have this like, you know, people use the word like cope or treat. You know, it’s kind of like step by step process, which sounds like is quite necessary to kind of, especially if you’re like, experiencing those acute events to like, kind of settle your nervous system down. But then I’m curious where also like for you maybe personally, where besides kind of like knowing the steps and knowing the tools, if there was any kind of like, you know, lifestyle changes, you know, kind of. Even if it’s like diet or exercise or, you know, mindfulness or movement or community, and then if there’s been any like, kind of, I don’t know, like deeper work, I guess you could say. I mean, even just the way you were speaking about your story, you know, kind of in like. So that kind of like maybe deeper work or maybe there’s a different word for it, plus kind of like lifestyle, plus kind of like having all the tools, like, how do you view? And maybe I’m missing Some parts. Like, how do you view all of that as kind of the. As the path to, you know, overcoming some of these more acute, like, challenges and getting to like, a. Another level of, I guess, wellness, maybe as a word. Like, how do you see the combination of those things? Yeah, totally.
Ania Wysocka: So Rootd, really. A combination of pretty much all the above, except maybe community, because at the time, like, it is really hard to reintegrate with friendship. You also lose a lot of friendships when you go through a big change like that. I don’t know if you experienced that during your depression, but often when you go through these periods, you leave behind friendships that were associated with whatever kind of contributed to making you sick. And that can lead to a lot of loneliness. And I say sick loosely, like, you know, lead to this change where you need to. Yeah. When. Lead to this place where you want to make this change and. Yeah, I’d say all the above. You know, we talk a lot about diet and exercise. Movement was pretty key for me. I’ve done the same workout routine for like, eight years now, zero variation. But I still love it and just worked for me. And I started doing it when I was experiencing the panic attacks, probably, you know, for running, I’ve always ran on and off. Like, I used to be in cross country, so my distances have gotten much longer. But in terms of, like, schedule, same.
Rob Pintwala: Schedule for eight years, that’s primarily running. Sorry, I’d love to hear a little bit more about the routine.
Ania Wysocka: Well, it’s just that on Monday, I do, like, hit workout for legs On Tuesday, I do a run. On Wednesday, I do hit workout for arms on Thursday, I do a run Friday, full body or just. That’s my rest day, depending on how much I want to hike and run on the weekend. And that is just what I’ve been doing. And that was actually. It’s 20, 20, 23, so it would actually be closer, like more like nine years that I’ve just been doing the same thing.
Rob Pintwala: I love that.
Ania Wysocka: But yeah, so that’s a huge part as well, I think in general, self care. So a few of those things you mentioned, I think we can group those into the category of self care. When you are anxious, experiencing panic disorder, depressed, or experiencing other similar things, you stop caring about yourself as much. Your whole world sort of revolves around this issue you’re experiencing. And so there’s a lot that you miss out on in. Like, the UN calls these, like, activities of daily living, or it’s the World Health Organization that calls that activities of daily living. So that’s as simple as making yourself a meal, showering, cleaning up the space around you, grooming, you know, getting a haircut, et cetera. Like these are things that we tend to stop doing when we’re in these difficult places and they actually contribute to our self esteem in many ways. You know, the care that we put in the space around us that does reflect on us. And so little things like that we’re all about. Yeah. Building back that self esteem so that those are the external things that you could do. So we mentioned diet, movement, caring about your space and yourself. And then obviously there’s so much internal work. So like you said, the deep work that you know, in Rootd, there’s a few chapters on like changing the way you talk about yourself to yourself. So self labeling, you know, rather than saying I’m an anxious person, which is like this all or nothing thinking, I say, hey, I’m a sensitive person that’s like, you know, pretty artistic and I’m going through a really rough time right now. And it’s just such a different way of speaking about yourself. Right. It’s just showing yourself much more respect. So all of those, all the above were part of my journey and are talked about and Rootd also. Some like values were like figuring out like who I really am as a person too. I struggled with all this stuff when I was pretty young, so I didn’t really get to have a chill. Like my 20s were pretty awful to be honest. So I didn’t have that like self discovery expiration time that maybe my peers would have had in a different way. So I sat down, sort of wrote it out like, you know, what are my values? Who’s super important to me, what do I want out of life? And that’s something that can change every year. So it’s almost encouraged to keep doing it every year. But that was a part of the deep work as well. Yeah.
Rob Pintwala: I’m curious a little bit more about how you’ve learned and what you’ve learned about the users and like maybe just to give folks some context, like how many people use your app. I think it’s an incredible number.
Ania Wysocka: So we hit that 3 million download mark recently.
Rob Pintwala: That’s. That is massive. Wow. It’s like larger than some countries.
Ania Wysocka: Yeah. Super cool because when I was launching it, I just didn’t even know if like one other person would download it. You know, I didn’t launch into it with like a business plan or like with an MBA background. It was more so like this needs to exist and I really wish it did because pattern Cadets don’t have to take as long to heal as they did for me.
Rob Pintwala: Yeah, yeah, I think that’s, that’s just incredible. Well, I’m curious around kind of the users. When I hear you speak about all this, I just think of like someone who’s so resourceful and like determined, doesn’t, you know, never gave up. And also like, doesn’t take insufficient advice. Maybe like, you know, like counselors or whoever. Your doctor who wasn’t very helpful. You know what I mean? It’s like I think of. And maybe this is just unbiased and I was born in Canada and you know, with our healthcare system here, but like, I just get the sense that like younger people, and I’m in my 30s now, so even our generation is, is much more sort of resourceful when it comes to sort of. Maybe that’s the Internet, but just not listening to your doctor necessarily. I shouldn’t say, like not listen to your doctor, but just also making sure you’re doing your own research. Right. And you strike me as someone who’s just like gone down that path like big time. And I’m curious if you’ve noticed a difference between sort of the older users of Rootd and folks that are maybe, you know, older than 40s, 50s, 60s, maybe older, having anxiety and panic attacks. Like when you were speaking about the whole myriad of things to work on, bring your life maybe to another level that maybe less severe anxiety and panic. Do you, do you notice a shift at all between younger and older people’s and their willingness to kind of do all the things versus, oh, I just gotta follow these steps or listen to my doctor or take this medication or something like that. And maybe I’m just loading this question too much with my own opinion, but yeah, yeah, not.
Ania Wysocka: It’s hard for me to like, note the difference. Like, the feedback I get is the user reviews and then I see some analytics, right? And that’s like more anonymized aggregate data. And it’s not that there’s a big difference in the way folks use the app, but I think a lot of older people will leave a message or a comment and say, I really wish I had this 10 years ago, I wish I had this eight years ago, et cetera. Whereas the younger people, they’re just grateful. They’re like, hey, I love this. Like, this character’s so cute. I’m finally going back to school again or whatnot. So I think, yeah, it’s just maybe the time they’re finding it in their lives, like for people now they’re just googling it really quick, right? And they find it instantly. And for older folks that have gone through the system and now they’re looking for maybe more supporting tools and supplemental tools, they’re just like, oh, why didn’t I have this before? And, yeah, I kind of felt the same when I read about cognitive behavioral therapy for the first time. I’m like, what the heck? Why did nobody tell me about this before? Why did I have to find this in the library?
Rob Pintwala: Yeah, yeah. I’m cur. I’m curious if you’ve, you know, if you felt any on the business side, you know, So I have been running my business for about five years now, and I definitely go through waves of motivation. And I think, like, the idea actually came from my partner and her challenge of finding a therapist. And I’ve always been a big kind of mental health advocate, and I mentioned a little bit about my struggles at university and. But I find that sometimes, like, you know, I’m focusing on a problem that’s just trying to keep it focused on finding a therapist. Right. And I think that, you know, I recently got out of, like, another kind of two years of therapy in my life, but now I’m. I’m not in therapy, but I’m thinking about the next steps, right. Of kind of, like, personal growth and that sort of thing. So I guess what I’m trying to say is, like, sometimes I have a harder time resonating with my, like, product as, like, at first I was, like, a user and, you know, like, in therapy all the time. And I think I’ll be in therapy for the rest of my life. But I’m curious if you’ve had that experience now that you’ve saying kind of you’re experiencing, you know, this panic, and you’re like, such an expert because you obviously built this whole program, right? If you ever have that kind of trouble of maybe, like, being it almost becoming less personal, and maybe, like, your personal goals are kind of moved on from this or how. Or, like, how do you stay motivated? How do you stay with it?
Ania Wysocka: That’s a good question. I’d say that I’ve been beginning to feel parts of what you’re describing. Just because I no longer am experiencing anxiety and panic attacks, I still go through waves of, you know, just like, everybody dealing with stuff. But, you know, I’m now able to travel and do all these things that I wasn’t able to do. So that has maybe felt a bit less personal. But I think at the court, this is just recently, though, Right. Like, so the past, well, a couple years have been awesome, but now this whole past year has just been so different than the year before that. And so I hear what you’re saying, but I do still feel very inspired by it being like my baby, which I know is like, kind of lame that entrepreneurs call our startups that, but it does feel like that because everything in Rootd was like, you know, really handcrafted. And I have yet to really get a bunch of outside content. Like, everything in there is really stuff that I’m familiar with. I think if we were to start expanding, then it might feel less like something that’s a hundred percent mine, like the way you’re saying. And maybe if we expand to other problem areas that I’m not as familiar with, then that would also contribute to that feeling. But for right now, it’s still all the content that I’m like, so familiar with. And a big motivator are the user reviews. That’s huge. I mentioned that I’m traveling. At this last conference I went to, somebody came up to me in person and was just gushing about the Rootd app, that they couldn’t have their job if it wasn’t for Rootd because they’re required to fly a lot. They have a fear of flying, so they use Rootd. Finally they’re able to get in planes. And she was saying all that stuff before she knew I was the founder. And so that was really sweet to like, here. And every now and then, obviously, majority, 99.9% of the feedback again, is online. But I do meet people that use Rootd in person and they share their stories or they’ll tell me how their dad is using it or their kids are using it, and they just want to say thanks. And I find that, like, super motivating.
Rob Pintwala: That is awesome.
Ania Wysocka: The when and don’t actually. This thing my partner made for me, it’s all Rootd user testimonials. It’s just obviously a small sample of them. But the idea was to, like, turn back and just read these when I’m having a crappy day, just to, like, remember why I’m doing it.
Rob Pintwala: That’s such a good idea. I need to do that too. Yeah, it’s when you’re. I just find when you’re working, you know, in the pixel world, you know, in the app or in the website. Right. You’re just. Especially when you’re working, you know, as a solo founder, single founder, without any sort of teammates that are invested as much as you are in it. I just find that, yeah, it’s really easy to get removed from why the why and also like the impact. Right. And I think that a lot of, you know, a lot of folks are okay going through or have different motivations, but I think if you start something because it’s solving a problem and you want to like stay connected to that and I think it’s a phenomenal idea to have those user testimonials. Tell me a little bit more about starting the company by yourself and growing it initially by yourself and how you’ve like, what have you learned about community? And you know, maybe just to drag on the question a little bit more. Like I know myself, I’ve had like pretty much four different times when I like almost had a co founder and like gone down the path. But like I’m here, I am still just me. Had you experienced anything similar? I like, have you been looking or how do you fill that gap of. Yeah, loneliness, I guess.
Ania Wysocka: Yeah, I guess feeling pretty alone while I was growing up. Like I just, it’s like almost a constant and that has maybe in a weird way helps. I’ve definitely had moments where I’ve just been up against like a big problem in the business and been pulling my hair out and being like, wow, what do I do? Like, were people right? Like, because when I was starting everybody said you needed a co founder. It was almost like non negotiable. In fact at the time people weren’t even interested in investing in companies unless they had two co founders. There was like some sort of trend or something. Maybe it came from the Valley, you know, those ideas of, of you know, what makes a real company. And I, yeah, came up to those, or up against those types of situations quite a few times over the past five years. But I’m not sure exactly what is it that makes me like get through it. Except now at this time that we’re speaking, I’m back to thinking like, yeah, there’s absolutely no need for a co founder at the moment. So yeah, just sort of keep getting through it. But I’d say like the Internet is your best friend. Obviously there’s so much awful stuff on the Internet. But like it has taught me almost everything I know about business, about apps, about marketing, about B2B growth, all of that. Like literally everything is online. Like you can find it if you look for it.
Rob Pintwala: How do you, I mean it sounds like in your upbringing and just, you know, you someone and you referenced this before, that’s put a lot of pressure on themselves. And how does that look today? Like how do you Stay accountable to like, your goals or like, do you set, you know, hard goals and rigid targets or are you, you know, just kind of like, want to continue to grow? How do you, like, look at your business now and your growth there?
Ania Wysocka: I did for like the first four years. And yeah, it was like I needed to do them. Like, I would think about it all the time. Like, before I went to bed, like, it drove me, it motivated me. And now I’m much more chill, I think maybe because I hit those goals. And so now I’m like, oh, like, what’s next? Like, it’s kind of a fun time to be able to take time, like a step back and be like, okay, what are the next goals? But I certainly, thanks to Ruta, thanks to all this progress, like, I don’t have desperate need for it right now. Whereas I think at first it was came from like quite a place of desperation, needing to heal, needing to get this message out, needing, like quite a few people were like, this isn’t going to work. Maybe I had a chip on my shoulder about that. I needed to, you know, show them that it would. That type of thing. Like, I don’t have that right now. Currently I’m feeling quite content with what where root inside and what it’s achieved. There’s always more growth to be had. Obviously 3 million is just scratching the surface. Even though it’s so many, it’s still just scratching the surface. But I guess because I’m not venture backed as well, I don’t have that external pressure on anything. And it’s. Yeah, I just really want to get this out to people who can benefit from it the most. Which may sound corny, but like there is just like that’s the underlying core of Rootd. And so now working with larger organizations that’s like, been really cool and really like values aligned. And it’s just made me feel like the early days of Rootd again, where it’s just all about getting it out to people, making sure the content’s awesome and making sure people are enjoying it versus worrying about growth in a specific number.
Rob Pintwala: Yeah, that is. It sounds like. I mean, it sounds incredible. Like almost like a gift just to be able to feel that contentness. Right. I mean, it sounds like the beginning of this story stemmed from not being able to sit with any sort of contentness. Right. So now you’ve kind of achieved that and that’s incredible to wrap things up. I heard you say, I think the word heal a few times and I know for me personally that word has grown on Me a lot since I kind of entered into this mental health space. And at first I was like, well, heal. Like what’s, you know, like that sounds like there’s gotta be something wrong in order to heal. So that’s kind of like, you know, that’s a bigger, that’s a bigger step to even like accept that. I’m curious what that word means to you. Heal and your use of it over that. Has that changed?
Ania Wysocka: Yeah, it’s a good question. Probably. I haven’t sat down to think about the word in particular, but I guess you’re right. Healing implies at first a self awareness that not everything’s okay. And then for me, healing has largely been about reversing the cycle that we talked about, reversing that cycle of fear and even starting like more of a cycle of like chill. And that has been a big part of healing. I lost my mom at a young age and so that is still like a very. Feels like open wound at times. And that as I. A lot of people say that grief comes in waves, I’d say that’s probably quite accurate for me. And the goal is like for that to always look and feel a bit different when the waves come crashing again. And it’s not like a goal that I like. Like it’s a more like a calming goal. Like that’s something that I talk about with a therapist versus set as a goal. So maybe I didn’t use that word correctly, but yeah, that is a part of healing, a part of being able to find contentness. You know, I mentioned that I’m pretty chill about my goals with Rootd right now. But like people around me are like, I like this. You’ve got to like take it off now or like, you know, do set this 10 times higher. Set the bar 10 times higher. So I think healing is also being a part of it is just listening to my own goals and inner voice versus like feeling peer pressure from those around me. All of those are part of healing. So I don’t know if I answered that question correctly, but I think that’s.
Rob Pintwala: Like so much wisdom in that response. So. And I, after now knowing some of the folks that I can picture, you know, giving you, giving you some of that encouragement or kind of pressure, I. Yeah, like that is hard to still trust yourself and to listen to yourself and yeah, thanks for sharing that part about the grief. I think, yeah, that’s really deep and special. So this conversation has been really nice. So thank you for sharing your story and your passion and yeah, how do you spell Rootd and where can people get it?
Ania Wysocka: So you spell Rootd R O, O, T, D. So no E. And you can get it on the app stores both on Apple and Google Play. And yeah, you can also find us online on social, on Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, you name it, we’re there.
Rob Pintwala: Amazing. We’re going to link all that, too, in the in the notes here. So, Ania, thank you so much, and I hope to see you around soon.
Ania Wysocka: Awesome. Sounds good. Thanks, Rob.
Rob Pintwala: Take care. Thank you for listening to this episode of the actualized podcast. You can find the show notes for this episode as well as all other episodes at first session. Com. Podcast. If you like this podcast, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you again and we’ll see you next time.